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Malcolm Robbins's avatar

Interesting discussion thanks. I was thinking this “debate” about whether sovereignty was ceded is kind of silly since, we can’t know what they were thinking back then. But it is of some interest to try and seek some understanding. Having said that the more important observation is why NZ is having this debate so vociferously today and question is really what is motivating that. What is the current “vision of the future of NZ?”. Are those who say Māori never ceded to the Crown making that case because they’d like to set up a parallel legal system, etc based on ethnicity or what? Or should NZ become a Māori ethnic state? And there lies the real debate... There are real risks here and the questions deserve robust but mature debate. I respect the ideals of tolerance and ethnic diversity including redress for past injustices but on the other hand I also fear an over focus on identitarianism leading to the unintended consequences of resulting in the 180 degree opposite of the intentions. You only need to dig a little into the underlying internal causes of Ukraine and Israeli civil breakdown to see how badly things can turn out when there lacks some cultural “glue” binding people together than pulling them apart. At least here in NZ we don’t have foreign powers overly vested in adding fuel to the fires of ethno-nationalism, but I really wish we could have a mature debate about it without both sides jumping straight to the extreme catastrophising of the outcome of even talking about it. It doesn’t really help reach a degree of mutual shared view. It’s kind of like a married couple who can no longer talk to each other without descending into an unconstructive shouting match. Seems infantile to me.

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Buffy's avatar

Great discussion thanks. What is always missing in these discussions is the fact there were people here before Maori. Maori committed genocide by killing most of those people and took over their land as well by killing them. Maori also attacked other Maori tribes. The Treaty bought a stop to that. Maori could no longer own slaves. Those freed slaves could now own land as everyone had equal rights - thanks to TOW. Equal rights for all is where NZ needs to be moving towards. No to race privileges

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