I taught at the University of Melbourne (Chemical Engineering) from 1965 to 1981 and left it as the Australian Federal Government, assisted by various State Governments, started creating cheap universities, following a global trend, by "upgrading" technical colleges and other more-or-less tertiary educational institutions without providing them with appropriately qualified staff and budgets. The objective was to create many tertiary education places for students thereby lessening pressure on employment markets. My main reason for leaving was because I felt that Institutions like Melbourne University would find pressure on filling student places with competition from the cheaper institutions and that we would find ourselves presenting courses that would appear to have been designed by Walt Disney Productions—aka Mickey Mouse Courses. 20 years later I caught up with a friend and former colleague who told me I had been laughed at because of my thoughts but was proved to have been right in the longer term.
I see the same thing happening today. When I returned to New Zealand in 1988 I viewed the University of Waikato with some concern and the expansionist plans of Massey University with trepidation. Now I see Waikato pushing very hard for a medical school which I consider completely unnecessary. I consider the Government would be wise to put more funding into the existing medical schools at Otage and Auckland.
I don't wonder that some people have little confidence in our institutions of higher education.
although fair to say Waikato is producing excellent graduates in areas like business, demography, history, languages, Maōri as well as physical sciences. This restriction of the Marsden Fund is shortsighted and damaging to NZ's future. With the rise of AI we will need even more focus on humanities and social science.
You are correct Stuart. For a number of years more than 20 years ago, I chaired a committee which selected applicants for Freemasons Scholars at Waikato University. I met some very bright and competent applicants including Jacinda Adern to whom we awarded a Scholarship. And through the NZ National Agricultural Fieldays® Society, I became friendly with Sir Don Llewellyn who was the inaugural Vice Chancellor of the University. However, much as I admired him, I didn't necessarily agree with the direction he took the University.
Yes, I have always thought that "The objective was to create many tertiary education places for students thereby lessening pressure on employment markets."
Essentially a holding pen to manage unemployment (that students have to pay to be corralled into).
I think there was an element of that "holding pen". No one stopped to ask just how many uni graduates our society/economy needed. More was considered better.
Grant. I agree wholeheartedly. As a mid-senior member of a Govt Dept in the mid 90's I was amazed at the number of Graduates we took on with virtually no experience other than a BA or similar. A colleague who set new standards in non-PC speech, would exclaim "Oh No, another BA in (obscenely unprintable) !! "
Thanks for the comment, Barry. May I point out that I was once a BA grad with virtually no work experience? And many of my former students too. We all start somewhere.
Marsden was a physicist; the Royal Society was established to promote science. It is a perversion to have the humanities under its umbrella. All Collins has done is to repair the damage done by the Ardern Government.
I'm not sure the move can been seen as just a right-wing govt strangling "left-wing scholars". It's more that the fund has been taken over by "research" into identity politics.
It's not just the odd project that can be singled out for criticism as woke either — they represent a big chunk of available funding. This grant of $360k, for example, went to a project that "highlights the unique experiences of Pacific girl gamers in Aotearoa New Zealand, exploring how gaming shapes their identities, wellbeing, and relationships through Pacific frameworks. Guided by Kakala, a Tongan research methodology, it centers their voices to provide new insights into gaming and cultural identity." There are plenty more like that.
Like many, I object to taxpayer funding going to what are essentially political projects to further identity politics and a "progressive" leftist agenda..
I can't defend that amount of money going on that research topic either, Graham. One reason I never applied to the Marsden fund was the sheer bureaucracy.
yes, but surely it sits with the Marsden assessment committees to say yeh or neh to a particular project? To unilaterally cut off all humanities and social science is plain crazy and damaging for NZ's future.
Well said. The humanities and social movement have been hijacking science for far too long. As have recent university attempts to redefine science. Our 3 Nobel prize winners were pure scientists.
Having lost a family member to suicide, caused by an utter failure of the psychiatric wooly thinkers, I shall be delighted to see this lot thrown on the scrapheap of failed ideology!
Hi Barry. I think the remedy is to reinvigorate the humanities and social sciences intellectually, rather than to throw them out altogether. I understand your concern however about ideas that have failed!
Thank you Janine. You are correct, but in my observation and experience, Psychiatry is the very least evidence based part of medicine, maybe other than homeopathy. They have also a special power to incarcerate people based solely on an opinion. Trump would be delighted to have this ! For a damming indictment, look on Wikipedia for the Rosenhan Experiment.
I think US Republicans have lower levels of trust in universities partly because so many of them don’t accept scientific facts: a fair proportion are climate change deniers, anti-vaccers, anti-fluoride, against evolution, and denied Covid was dangerous or that masks prevented its spread (quite a few of them died for the last two beliefs!). It isn’t just the arts and social sciences they distrust, but the hard sciences as well. Strange to see a superpower in the grip of a party with such a tendency to dismiss science. Unfortunate for global efforts to avoid cooking ourselves.
I can’t see that what I said is insulting. These are just the beliefs many Republicans and the Far Right in Australasia hold and state. I have neighbours who make these statements, such as claiming that climate change is a hoax, although it’s accepted throughout the worldwide scientific community, and we’re watching it unfolding almost day by day. This doesn’t seem healthy scepticism to me.
I don’t think you can dismiss this as ignorant Republicans who don’t know any better. When I see hypocrites jetting off to climate meetings and Al Gore’s 30,000 square foot mansion, I ask myself a question or two. Scepticism in science is healthy, not denial. Resorting to insults is not a compelling argument in my book.
I am an engineer. I don’t see the supply of teaching services at a tertiary level as being different than the supply of any other good. The lunatic phenomenon of good money being paid for skills that will not return an income will come home to roost on the kids who have borrowed the money. I think having our system encourage them into this sort of debt is a disgrace.
Bravo Grant. Your insightful article is so valuable in these perilous times. Observing the building programme at U of A and th salary of VC recently reported on, coupled with your analysis it's no wonder the academy is viewed so cynically by so many.
I taught at the University of Melbourne (Chemical Engineering) from 1965 to 1981 and left it as the Australian Federal Government, assisted by various State Governments, started creating cheap universities, following a global trend, by "upgrading" technical colleges and other more-or-less tertiary educational institutions without providing them with appropriately qualified staff and budgets. The objective was to create many tertiary education places for students thereby lessening pressure on employment markets. My main reason for leaving was because I felt that Institutions like Melbourne University would find pressure on filling student places with competition from the cheaper institutions and that we would find ourselves presenting courses that would appear to have been designed by Walt Disney Productions—aka Mickey Mouse Courses. 20 years later I caught up with a friend and former colleague who told me I had been laughed at because of my thoughts but was proved to have been right in the longer term.
I see the same thing happening today. When I returned to New Zealand in 1988 I viewed the University of Waikato with some concern and the expansionist plans of Massey University with trepidation. Now I see Waikato pushing very hard for a medical school which I consider completely unnecessary. I consider the Government would be wise to put more funding into the existing medical schools at Otage and Auckland.
I don't wonder that some people have little confidence in our institutions of higher education.
although fair to say Waikato is producing excellent graduates in areas like business, demography, history, languages, Maōri as well as physical sciences. This restriction of the Marsden Fund is shortsighted and damaging to NZ's future. With the rise of AI we will need even more focus on humanities and social science.
You are correct Stuart. For a number of years more than 20 years ago, I chaired a committee which selected applicants for Freemasons Scholars at Waikato University. I met some very bright and competent applicants including Jacinda Adern to whom we awarded a Scholarship. And through the NZ National Agricultural Fieldays® Society, I became friendly with Sir Don Llewellyn who was the inaugural Vice Chancellor of the University. However, much as I admired him, I didn't necessarily agree with the direction he took the University.
Yes, I have always thought that "The objective was to create many tertiary education places for students thereby lessening pressure on employment markets."
Essentially a holding pen to manage unemployment (that students have to pay to be corralled into).
I think there was an element of that "holding pen". No one stopped to ask just how many uni graduates our society/economy needed. More was considered better.
Grant. I agree wholeheartedly. As a mid-senior member of a Govt Dept in the mid 90's I was amazed at the number of Graduates we took on with virtually no experience other than a BA or similar. A colleague who set new standards in non-PC speech, would exclaim "Oh No, another BA in (obscenely unprintable) !! "
Thanks for the comment, Barry. May I point out that I was once a BA grad with virtually no work experience? And many of my former students too. We all start somewhere.
Marsden was a physicist; the Royal Society was established to promote science. It is a perversion to have the humanities under its umbrella. All Collins has done is to repair the damage done by the Ardern Government.
Hi Max. Humanities and social sciences were always included in the Marsden fund. On this occasion, you can't blame it all on Ardern.
I stand corrected. I thought it was a change championed by Grant Robertson.
Grant: can I revisit this? I’m told that Humanities was added by Robertson in 2010.
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/ED0905/S00107.htm
Maybe so, as a separate panel. I honestly don't recall.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/marsden-panellists-wont-be-able-to-ask-for-funds/3XLXUITGNPTWUAQP6PHOKLGABM/
For at least a generation, tertiary education has devolved from a public good to a bums-on-seats perishable good. And not just in NZ.
Outstanding commentary.
I'm not sure the move can been seen as just a right-wing govt strangling "left-wing scholars". It's more that the fund has been taken over by "research" into identity politics.
It's not just the odd project that can be singled out for criticism as woke either — they represent a big chunk of available funding. This grant of $360k, for example, went to a project that "highlights the unique experiences of Pacific girl gamers in Aotearoa New Zealand, exploring how gaming shapes their identities, wellbeing, and relationships through Pacific frameworks. Guided by Kakala, a Tongan research methodology, it centers their voices to provide new insights into gaming and cultural identity." There are plenty more like that.
Like many, I object to taxpayer funding going to what are essentially political projects to further identity politics and a "progressive" leftist agenda..
I can't defend that amount of money going on that research topic either, Graham. One reason I never applied to the Marsden fund was the sheer bureaucracy.
yes, but surely it sits with the Marsden assessment committees to say yeh or neh to a particular project? To unilaterally cut off all humanities and social science is plain crazy and damaging for NZ's future.
Well said. The humanities and social movement have been hijacking science for far too long. As have recent university attempts to redefine science. Our 3 Nobel prize winners were pure scientists.
Having lost a family member to suicide, caused by an utter failure of the psychiatric wooly thinkers, I shall be delighted to see this lot thrown on the scrapheap of failed ideology!
Hi Barry. I think the remedy is to reinvigorate the humanities and social sciences intellectually, rather than to throw them out altogether. I understand your concern however about ideas that have failed!
Sorry for your loss Barry.
Isn’t Psychiatry a specialist area of Medicine? And isn’t medicine and science hand in hand?
Thank you Janine. You are correct, but in my observation and experience, Psychiatry is the very least evidence based part of medicine, maybe other than homeopathy. They have also a special power to incarcerate people based solely on an opinion. Trump would be delighted to have this ! For a damming indictment, look on Wikipedia for the Rosenhan Experiment.
I think US Republicans have lower levels of trust in universities partly because so many of them don’t accept scientific facts: a fair proportion are climate change deniers, anti-vaccers, anti-fluoride, against evolution, and denied Covid was dangerous or that masks prevented its spread (quite a few of them died for the last two beliefs!). It isn’t just the arts and social sciences they distrust, but the hard sciences as well. Strange to see a superpower in the grip of a party with such a tendency to dismiss science. Unfortunate for global efforts to avoid cooking ourselves.
Very good point, Kai. That level of distrust in higher education and research is dangerously self-defeating.
I can’t see that what I said is insulting. These are just the beliefs many Republicans and the Far Right in Australasia hold and state. I have neighbours who make these statements, such as claiming that climate change is a hoax, although it’s accepted throughout the worldwide scientific community, and we’re watching it unfolding almost day by day. This doesn’t seem healthy scepticism to me.
I don’t think you can dismiss this as ignorant Republicans who don’t know any better. When I see hypocrites jetting off to climate meetings and Al Gore’s 30,000 square foot mansion, I ask myself a question or two. Scepticism in science is healthy, not denial. Resorting to insults is not a compelling argument in my book.
I am an engineer. I don’t see the supply of teaching services at a tertiary level as being different than the supply of any other good. The lunatic phenomenon of good money being paid for skills that will not return an income will come home to roost on the kids who have borrowed the money. I think having our system encourage them into this sort of debt is a disgrace.
Bravo Grant. Your insightful article is so valuable in these perilous times. Observing the building programme at U of A and th salary of VC recently reported on, coupled with your analysis it's no wonder the academy is viewed so cynically by so many.
Thanks Janfrie. The people who are making these mistakes get to keep their jobs and their high salaries unfortunately.